Robin Hardy Online
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A few years ago, Robin had the opportunity to exchange e-mails with a college professor who has written a book on zen: Dr. Reed Hardy, Associate Professor of Psychology at St. Norbert College. His book is Zen Master: Practical Zen by an American for Americans. Robin felt their discussion about zen and Christianity might interest her readers, so, with extraneous subjects edited out, here is the bulk of that discussion:
Reed: I am working on a second Zen book for intermediate students who are practicing zazen on their own. Since I wrote the first book I have discovered that most of the Buddhist teachers I talk to resent my book because it states categorically that one can be both Christian and practice authentic Zen at the same time. In fact, I go so far as to say that Zen and Christian beliefs resonate with each other producing helpful, mutually beneficial effects.
When I talk about Zen in church people tolerate it, but are not really open to it. When I talk about Christian beliefs around Zen folks they are not even as tolerant as the Christians are of the Zen ideas. Thus, my book is probably right where it needs to be, but being in the middle like that leaves no large group to champion it. Christians read it and say, "Hmmmm... I don't know..." and Buddhists read it and say, "Hmmm... I don't know..." It is the curse of every person who is trying to build bridges instead of walls, I think.
Robin: Re the Zen/Christian thing, I don't know enough about Zen to comment specifically. Generally, the resistance you are encountering may be due to inertia. The more committed adherents (whether Buddhist or Christian) have discovered that they can't achieve anything without focus. Once we learn to do something one way, (we feel like) we're too old to go back and learn to do it any other way!
The fact that you encounter stiffer resistance from Buddhists tells me that they are probably more serious about their religion than Christians--in this country, at any rate.
Reed: I think the problem is that Buddhism is not really a religion. How can a creed without a God be a religion? I think the traditions surrounding the practice of Buddhist meditation and the monastic life maintained by Buddhists has taken on many of the characteristics of a religion... But this is all beside the point. The reason I think it is important to explain to Americans that Buddhism is not a religion is so that they do not feel that the practice of zazen meditation is "against their religion." If Buddhism is a religion, then many would agree that one can not practice it and be a good-faith Christian at the same time.
This is rubbish, but it does seem to carry weight with Buddhists and Christians alike.
Robin: In a nutshell, what is zazen meditation?
Reed: Zazen is just sitting and allowing one's mind to gradually settle down to the point where one is no longer thinking at all. One begins by sitting with a straight back (this keeps one from falling asleep), and allowing thoughts to come into the mind and go out of the mind like clouds passing in the sky. As you settle in there are fewer clouds and they move more slowly. Eventually you reach a very calm state of being where you can actually hear the "still small voice within." When that happens, ahhhhhhhh.....
Robin: That is interesting. What do you mean by, "ahhhhhhhh"? And what does the still, small voice sound like? I'm asking because I really want to know.
Reed: ahhhhhhhhh.... This is the sound one makes when one sees a beautiful sunset, or one lays down on the bed after a long day of hard physical work. Fill your lungs with air, then let it out slowly with great appreciation for just being alive...The still small voice has no sound...it is still. How can one "hear" a still voice in a din? This is kind of like asking, "How can one see a shadow in the midst of a bright sunny day?" Simple, no? Does this make any sense to you? (:-)
Actually, Zen doesn't "make sense" in the normal way of thinking of it. It is not logical or conceptual. It is beyond, or more fundamental than, these artificial ways we humans represent our experience. Once you realize this, and stop thinking about zen, you can feel its truth even before you understand or fully experience it. Am I right? The best way to find out about Zen is to practice the meditation on a daily basis for at least six weeks. I firmly believe that Christ practiced zazen! He didn't just talk to his Father, he LISTENED to the reply. That is the key behavior that too many Christians have forgotten to emulate!
What do you think?
Robin: Okay, I think I'm getting the sense of what you are saying. I was thrown by your use of religious examples after saying that zen is not a religion. Bear with me while I explore the areas of my confusion:
Yes, I have "heard" the still, small voice. You are probably aware that the term is Scriptural (1 Kings 19:12) and in its original sense refers to the voice of God. If there is no God in zen, what is the source of your still, small voice?
And yes, I believe Christ practiced the self-discipline that is obviously required for zen, but Scripture makes it clear that his meditations involved conversation with another person: the Father. You mentioned that fact yourself. So I'm wondering how zen fits in with the idea of talking to God? Seems to me we're talking about plain ol' prayer.
Reed: God... God does not go along with the idea that there is no God in Zen practice.
I am a Quaker. For us prayer is truly plain. Zazen is very similar...a simple silent waiting in wonder. The happy insights that we have during Quaker Meeting for Worship are not fundamentally different from the happy insights we have during Zen session. As a Christian student of Zen I see a very important meaning in Buddha's reluctance to talk about God. Since each "religion" has its own interpretation of God, any talk of God in Zen would either simply establish another religion, or find itself running counter to the many religions of the day. Even though Buddha tried to avoid this, he was only partially successful.
Still, the bottom line is that the Buddhists have found many ways to practice the kind of mindfulness that allows us to hear the still small voice even as we go about our everyday activities. Christian prayer practices have not proven quite as effective in this regard. Maybe it's just my unworthiness that makes prayer less effective as a vehicle for forging a connection with God...
Thanks for bothering to discuss this with me. As you can imagine, these issues are crucial to the success of my Zen teaching work. If I can not find a way to communicate this "Truth," on both Christian and Zen sides of the aisle, Christians will have to go on without Buddha, and Buddhists will have to go on without Christ. A double sadness...
Robin: OK, I see some of what you are saying, especially about being silent before God. Buddha was not the only one, or the first, to understand that concept: "Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few." (Ecc. 5:2)
I'm afraid I do not see the advantages of zen over prayer in communicating with God. My own prayer life is fragmented and haphazard--certainly not based on my own worthiness, which is nil. Despite all that, I have received answers which confirm that I have made effective contact with Someone (which never would have happened had He not been reaching for me first).
I agree that each religion has its own interpretation of God, only I would carry that further to say that each individual has his own interpretation of God. If you believe that there is ultimate truth, however, there must be a benchmark for gauging how close our interpretations come to hitting the mark. Christians rely on the Bible as that benchmark, and we are understandably leery of embracing anything else.
I know I need Jesus. He is my lifeline. I also find divine wisdom in Plato and divine worth in the life of Gandhi. But I confess that I don't see why I need Buddha . . . ?
Reed: To me, as both a Quaker and a meditator, prayer is not at all important because God already knows what I need at any moment. The key for me is LISTENING, or "Waiting on the Lord." The reason Zen is so important in my practice is because it gives me a way to very effectively quite my constantly busy mind long enough to listen intently, not only while I meditate, but throughout the day.
Maybe if you started a regular meditation practice you would hear/see/understand why you don't need Buddha...but you could really benefit via his method... (:-)
Robin: I have the distinct feeling we're sparring over semantics, because I totally agree that listening is indispensable to enlightenment. I just don't see why I should call it "zen" when "waiting on the Lord" is already in my vocabulary.
Listening quietly is necessary and good, but I also have to feel that someone is listening to me. You can't have a relationship with one-sided communication. And yes, God knows what I need far better than I do--but one of the mysteries of prayer is that he has instructed us to ask him! He repeatedly tells us to bring our requests to him repeatedly. I can't dismiss an opportunity like that, especially when I have seen its benefits.
Reed: Hey, we aren't "sparring" are we? I thought we were having a conversation? (:-)
The Buddhists have a lot of helpful tools that are not in our vocabulary. The koans, for example, are VERY helpful little teaching stories that move us closer to being able to stop yammering to ourselves so that God can get a word in edgewise. It is easy to say, "waiting on the Lord," but without some techniques it is almost impossible to make it real.
I am not saying that prayer is in any way not a very important practice! What I am saying is that along with it, just sitting, in concentrated awareness, makes one soft, open, and ready to hear the answer(s).
I think we, together, have put our fingers on why my book has found no excited audience. It seems to suggest that both Christians and Buddhists have it all wrong! Such is the life of bridge builder...
Robin: Re my use of "sparring": Look, I write fiction. It's my job to dramatize.
OK, give me an example of a koan.
Yes, I think you are exactly correct. We ALL have it all wrong, and we have to be put right.
Now let me ask you this: Do you believe in spirits?
Reed: Koans are little mind puzzles (the Rinzai teachers would string me up for characterizing them so modestly) that push one to go beyond discursive mental problem solving. One of the most important ideas brought to us by the Zen teachers is that we are imprisoned in a word-based thought cage of our own making. The koans can not be "solved" verbally. They work at a level of thought that is beyond words, or outside the word cage. Here are some of the more famous of them...
An American philosopher who had studied Zen arrived at a monastery asking for an audience with the Abbot. After a short wait the American dignitary was escorted into the Abbot's living room where a pot of tea and two cups had been set out on the beautiful rosewood table. After introductions, the American seated himself saying, "I have studied the sutras, and the many writings of the sages down through the centuries. I thought it would be useful to come and actually learn from a living Zen Master."
"Ah, so," said the Abbot as he began to pour tea into the American's cup. As the cup filled, the Abbot showed no sign of slowing the flow of tea. Shortly the cup overflowed and hot tea began to spill into the saucer, then onto the beautiful table. The American, amazed and confused, said, "Stop! Can't you see the cup is full?!" The Abbot, smiled and stopped pouring the tea.
Here is another... A new student comes to the monastery. Just as he finishes breakfast he sees the head teacher, whom he has heard a great deal about, on the other side of the room. The student approaches the teacher asking, "I am So'n'so, will you please teach me?" The Abbot looks at the student and asks, "Have you had your breakfast?" The student smiles and nods... "Then you had better wash your bowl." says the Abbot.
To this the student, eyes suddenly opened wide, says, "Thank you! Thank you!"
Hey, if you want more of this stuff, buy my book! (:-)
In my opinion koans produce little breakthroughs. The more meaningful breakthrough occur in response to life events. Or life is the real koan. But, koans are only one of many methods used by the Zen teachers to help their students reach a state of quiet, inner-monologue-free, being. What they provide really, really does help us find a way to relinquish our egocentric thoughts long enough to hear that still small voice. But the real key is regular zazen. "And the joy we share as we tarry there, none other, has ever, known..."
Spirits? What kind of spirits?
Robin: Boy, I don't think anybody appreciates the limitations of words more than I do. The harder I try to express some concept that has broadsided me, the more inadequate the words look.
And yet, I don't see them as a cage, but as a signpost. Like art or dance or music, they point to a truth that they cannot contain--who understands "God," "heaven," or "soul"? The words are only pointers to a reality beyond ourselves. Yes, they're insufficient, but we'd be in dire straits without them. How far will pantomime or pictures get you in communicating the principles of zen?
Speaking of which, the koans are interesting--I have heard some like that before. I can guess at what truths they may indicate, but, I get the same workout from meditating on "Blessed are the poor in spirit." Breakthroughs can come in many ways--I guess it's just a matter of how your brain is wired.
You keep referring to the still, small voice. I still don't understand whose voice you are hearing, or what it is saying. Can you be more specific? Or tell me what that expression means to you.
Any spirits that you can't see.
Reed: [Pantomime and pictures can take you] All the way. These techniques (body language, music, and pictorial art) are used by many Zen teachers who do not try to teach with words (The tea ceremony is a fine example). But, the point isn't that words are useless. It is just that most of us can't seem to stop living in a cage of word-based thought images. Sure words are useful tools, but you don't sit around all day picking up tools and waving them around. You pick up a tool to use it, and when you are finished, you set it down. With an empty hand you are ready to pick up the next tool. The problem with most of us is that our minds never put down the words... They are constantly "thinking." There is no room left for REALITY to seep in.
I don't think our brain wiring has much to do with it. It doesn't matter whether or not we speak a particular language or are raised in a particular culture. We all benefit from learning how to live without constantly talking to ourselves.
Actually, I don't like the phrase "believe in" at all. I find that if we lock ourselves into "beliefs" they inevitably fail us either by requiring amendment, or by restricting what we let ourselves see. That said, I try to be open to my direct experiences.
Robin: I agree that, most of the time, my mind is working with words. But most of the time, they aren't my words. They are other people's words that I mull over to try to understand what the other person is trying to communicate to me. In doing this, I'm not talking to myself. Are words incapable of communicating reality?
I do understand how to quiet the mental processes and listen. However, I know what I am listening for. I never just leave my mind open any more than you would leave your front door open at night.
By "believe in" I mean what you have had direct experience with. I consider a belief system valid only as far as it dictates one's behavior and enters one's experience.
(not answered)
Reed: I seriously believe that zazen meditation is a great thing for Americans. Americans really need to get back in touch with their spiritual selves. When/if Americans begin regular zazen practice they find that what they learn through zazen enlivens their spiritual life and creates a bond of sister/brotherhood between them and all people of all races and all creeds. Just what the world needs. Just what the citizens of the most powerful country in history needs!
Robin: Bless you, you are such an optimist. When you say that people need to get in touch with their spiritual selves, my first thought is, "What if they're the devil incarnate?" Then the rest of us may wish they had left their spiritual side alone.
I am convinced that what we need is the spiritual healing that can only come from the Great Physician, administered at the foot of the cross.
Reed: I seriously doubt that "the devil incarnate" has a spiritual side, but if he/she does, it can only be a good thing for him/her to get in touch with God, don't you think? I may be naive, but if God created the Devil, and named him "Lucifer" and gave him dominion over the underworld. He can't be all bad. I would say that the upset between God and Satan is between them. I try to just do my best with my own worries. I can't fix the cosmic ones, but I might be able to reduce my own negative impact on things...
From [the reference to the cross] I gather that you are waiting passively for Christ to come and save us--the second coming idea. I have great hopes along those lines myself, but I think that we must be prepared for Him when he comes. He is not going to just grant a pardon to every schmuck on the block. I believe that salvation will come
most easily to those of us who have prepared a place for Him in our hearts and minds. I believe that bringing God's quiet strength in to stop my yammering little greedy mind each morning and evening will help make me ready for that day.
Robin: Oh, dear. That's what I get for trying to be poetic instead of clear. I'm going by the biblical view of Satan: He was created a perfect being, but became monstrously corrupted through pride--specifically, in wanting to be God--and got tossed out of heaven. So now he's taking it out on God's creation, especially man. We're warned, "Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." He IS a spirit--a very powerful, evil spirit.
He is so much more powerful than we are that no one could escape him without help of someone stronger yet. During Jesus' life on earth, he personally contended with Satan numerous times, and won every battle. But Jesus' greatest victory was suffering death by torture, then rising from the grave three days later.
No other religious leader has ever made the claim that he would rise from the dead, and no other religion but Christianity insists that its founder is alive forever. This is how we are saved: accepting Jesus as the unique Son of God. He himself said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." The early apostles confirmed: "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." That salvation begins the moment anyone opens his mind to the truth about Jesus.
Meditation is good and beneficial, but it will not save us. That requires the divine intervention of a God who was willing to die for us.
Reed: I don't have time to give this topic the attention it deserves. I have barely even finished reading your message, but I do want to say that "pride" is one of the major blocks to personal growth. Each of us must wrestle with it in our lives. But, that pride comes from the inside, not the outside. I believe that sitting meditation is one of the very best ways to pour water on the roots of that fire. Then, when done in the spirit of waiting on the Lord, the quieted mind that would often be filled with pride motivated verbal activity can "hear" the message. Often that message is one of love and compassion for our plight in this world where powerful forces threaten us, and more powerful forces protect us...
It is important to note that I agree with you completely and utterly when it comes to your last assertion that meditation will not save us. Without God, we are lost before we begin. I never meant to imply that meditation is "the answer." But, if anyone sincerely seeks to enhance the role of God in their life, meditation is a very powerful way to find that inner guide, and it is also a powerful way to put aside our pride and move toward God in our lives.
I believe that Christ died for us, to show us the way, but I do not believe that when we follow that way we must also die as Christ did. To follow in the footsteps of Christ may bring us into conflict with our society and our loved ones at times, but it may also bring us into accord with them. The fact is, when we follow in the footsteps of Christ in our life, we find that we must repeatedly let go of greed, pride, willfullness of all kinds, and just live paying very close attention to what we are doing from moment to moment. This close attention requires patience and skills that most Americans do not have. Zazen meditation helps us develop those skills. It helps us learn to focus on what is happening from second to second instead of doing so much day-dreaming. After a few years of practicing zazen you will be much more able to see the effects of pride, selfishness, and willfulness in your life, and understand why these drives are considered evil. It is only when you can see these things at work that you can kick them out of your life effectively.
A lot of people think they can kick Satan out of their life "for good," or "once and for always." This is not the way a human life works. We must repeatedly keep watch, and repeatedly decide against our worst motives.... We can only do that by paying close attention to our actions/motives each step of the way... Prayer helps here a great deal. In fact, I believe that my learning about zazen was a gift that came out of my own prayers for guidance. I asked God to guide me, and he gave me zazen. I am trying to pass that on, but meeting up with a lot of pride-based resistance. People seem to think they are perfect already, and don't need to improve.
Robin: The one point you keep stressing is, "Try it. You won't know the benefits until you do." In this, I agree with you--direct experience is the only way to KNOW whether any practice or philosophy is actually helpful to us.
But direct experience is a two-edged sword. There is such a thing as a bad experience, and a really bad experience can kill. I have learned, from experience, that the spiritual world is a very busy place, and not all of the activity is benign. For me, a human, to go messing around in the spiritual without a reliable guide is like a squirrel venturing out onto an eight-lane highway: Toast. Squirrel gumbo.
I have also learned, from direct experience, that the Bible is a reliable guide in spiritual matters. When I use it to guide my wanderings into unknown territory, I am enlightened, enriched and (most important to a coward like me) not harmed. Therefore, I think, "If zazen were crucial to my spiritual life, then my Guide would have included something about it in the Guidebook--or at least, given it hallmarks that enable me to recognize it as consistent with the orientation of the Guidebook."
But I don't find that with zazen. Instead, I have found from my own experience that the practice of simply opening my mind and letting whatever lurking in the neighborhood to wander in is dangerous. And sure enough, my Guidebook warns, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
I'm glad you have found something that helps you. I'm sorry that I can't participate.
Reed: You sound like you think meditation is akin to some addictive drug experience! What on earth do you think is in there that is so frightening? . . . Now I see what you are afraid of. You have a very vivid imagination. You are afraid you will get lost in there.
If you believe as you say you do, then you must believe Christ when he said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is inside you." Also when he prayed at Gethsemane he reportedly "sweat blood" during that long vigil. Do you really believe that he was TALKING all that time? Don't you think he stopped talking and listened for extended periods? I think that the authors of the Bible just took it for granted that the readers would know how Christ sat, and how he waited in silence to hear God's voice in his heart.
Christ also said "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." Do you feel you are living in the Kingdom of Heaven? Do you pay sufficiently close attention to what is happening in your life to see/feel God's living hand in your life? Most people don't bother to interrupt their self-centered activities long enough to give themselves a chance to see/feel God's presence in their day to day life.
I find nothing in this admonition to "beware of false prophets" that suggests that you can not trust your own mind. This fear you express of things "lurking in the neighborhood" can only suggest that you are afraid of something in your own mind. This is classic Freudian psychodynamics at work. Of course you are afraid of some aspects of your own mind. You know you can be mean at times. You know you can be tempted to do things that are fun, but not really good for you (like have an ice cream cone after dinner). You know that you can sometimes be greedy, and so fearful that you don't trust even God. This is normal human anxiety.
But, failure to face those inner demons lets them have their way with you. If you are going to stand up for what is right in the world, you might constructively start by standing up for what is right within you. Don't be afraid of the demons. Jesus will walk with you each step of the way. He is more powerful than they are. He faced his fears, we all have to face ours if we are to honor His sacrifice. Don't you think this is true?
I gather from the tone of this last line that you are bowing out of this conversation. If you will recall, this whole conversation got started because I complained to you about the fact that Christians aren't very interested in Zen, and Buddhists aren't liking the Christian content of my book. Does this whole discussion confirm my thesis? Sad but true.
Robin: You are obviously very passionate and committed about zen, and that's great. But for someone who values listening as much as you do, you haven't been listening to me.
Your assertion that what I experienced of the supernatural was in my imagination, or classic Freudian psychodynamics, would be insulting if it weren't so funny. What I encountered was so real, and so distinct from anything in my own mind, that it left a physical impairment. I was physically attacked. You may dismiss it, disbelieve it, or try to explain it away, but I still carry the impairment thirty years later.
In trying to understand what happened to me, I discovered the only viable explanation to be the New Testament concept of spiritual warfare. To know more of Christ, and experience His life more fully, I need to go to the source that teaches about Him, and obey it. How does it honor Him to practice teachings from a religion that does not regard Him as the unique Son of God?
You have my sympathy in your frustrations at bridge building. But I do not think your lack of response is due to your audience being complacent or afraid. I believe it is because you are attempting to bridge two incompatible concepts.
Reed: You may say that I have not been listening to you, but I can't hear what you do not say. I have no idea what your experience with Satan was like. You have told me very little about it. But, I do know that people who struggle with their inner shadows also often suffer physical impairments as a result. Suicide is one example, but there are many, many other examples of the harm we do to ourselves and others when we fail to address our own inner demons.
I am sure you have heard of the book, "In His Steps." I received that book when I was confirmed in my church. I read it and believed it. It seemed to me to make sense that in order to understand Christ we had to not think of him as dead, but alive and very well. The Bible provides a history. The living Christ provides guidance every moment of every day. He breaths life into me and my vocation. Don't you feel that too? I can not go to the Bible to find out what Christ has in mind for me now. I have to go to Him in the present. Don't you think?
If sitting in silence is incompatible with Christianity, then all those Quakers must be WAY wrong. Zazen is not a religion any more than praying is a religion. It is just something we do that helps us become humble enough to hear/feel/become aware of God in our lives. If that is incompatible with today's Christianity, then so much the worse for today's Christianity, for it has lost touch with its source. I think you secretly agree with this. That is why you have bothered to even discuss these ideas with me. But, honestly, I am not usually this evangelical!
Hey, if you don't want to mediate, by all means...But, if you find yourself sitting in the park and you feel the Presence of Christ in the beauty of your surroundings, you'd better watch out! You are in danger of meditating!
Dr. Hardy's second book, Zen Student: Remember BE Right Now!, should be out in early 2006. Dr. Hardy's website can be seen here.
